[UGAF] Top dog request.

Wed Nov 26 09:57:35 MST 2008

Mark,
I assume you meant to address me rather than David ;)

I have never used zoop. I sort of have issues with PHP frameworks. They seem
to make hard things easy and easy things hard. I guess it is like asking a
C++ developer to start coding in C#. They may like how it makes some tedius
things easier, but don't like sticking within the confines of the framework
- at least that is how I've heard a C/C++ developer talk.

I don't really have to deal with that while learning Django & Python. I'm
learning the language within the framework, so I know of no other ways of
doing things. Plus, I love the terseness of the Python language. I don't
think I'll ever get away from PHP, but is nice to have another choice when
starting a new app. I just wrote http://housesheet.com and it took me about
3 hours to have something useable for what I needed. I've since added a
number of features, but looking back, to do what I did in 3 hours would have
taken me 2-3 times as long coding it from scratch in PHP.

I'm moving down to Alpine. I've never actually been PHP lunch or user group.
I guess I don't really hear about these things.

Dustin

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Mark Morgan <Mark at iglobalgreetings.com>wrote:

> David,
>
> Have you ever used Zoop?
>
> http://zoopframework.com/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoop_Framework
>
> With your 8 years experience with PHP, you seem qualified to comment on
> Zoop even if you have no experience with it yet.
>
> Where are you moving to in Utah county? I'm in Springville.
> Were you at the PHP lunch at Sumo's in SLC a few weeks ago?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Dustin Davis wrote:
>
>  I can't say for sure that I will help. Things are pretty hectic with work
>> and I'm in the middle of a move. We are moving down to Utah county. Maybe
>> if
>> you have suggestions I can record a tutorial on my own. I do plan on
>> purchasing Camtasia soon.
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:18 AM, David McGuigan <davidmcguigan at gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  The overall purpose is for developers from each language and NEW
>>> developers
>>> (like college kids that are trying to decide what to pick up) to be able
>>> to
>>> quickly, visually get a taste of each product in a way that's not very
>>> time
>>> consuming like reading over documentation or potentially-biased or
>>> near-sighted forums and that's more entertaining and engaging. To dispel
>>> some myths, to hopefully expose some comparative strengths and weaknesses
>>> for simple application development of each language when compared to its
>>> competitors, and to just be a fun experiment.
>>>
>>> It's not malicious or necessarily competitive at all.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that ColdFusion will come across as faster / bettter /
>>> easier
>>> to develop with just because that's what I use on a daily basis and it's
>>> impossible for me to even imagine that anything could be more efficient
>>> or
>>> powerful than what I use, I'm sure you know the feeling.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply. In the next few weeks I'll be drafting up some
>>> ideas
>>> on exactly what we should demo and sending them around to the other
>>> interestetd developers to make sure that they're mutually acceptable
>>> tasks
>>> that don't lend an advantage or disadvantage to any one product.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply!
>>> Can I go ahead and count you in then?
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 5:38 AM, Dustin Davis <dustin at davisvillage.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>  So, what is the overall purpose - to try to show that Coldfusion is
>>>> faster/better than other languages? I've got about 8 years experience
>>>>
>>> with
>>>
>>>> PHP, so I may be able to help. I've also been coding a lot of
>>>>
>>> Python/Django
>>>
>>>> lately. I don't know if I would consider myself expert in that area yet,
>>>> but
>>>> I could probably demonstrate each of the areas you mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 1:10 AM, David McGuigan <
>>>> davidmcguigan at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hey guys,
>>>>> Tonight was my first UPHPU meeting. Great presentations, thanks for
>>>>>
>>>> having
>>>>
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> My name's David McGuigan, and I'm a full time Web developer about a
>>>>>
>>>> year
>>>
>>>> and
>>>>> change out of school and have been toying around with a pretty
>>>>>
>>>> interesting
>>>>
>>>>> idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got kind of a random, fun request for the group. It's a chance to
>>>>> really show off PHP and possibly recruit some new developers to it. If
>>>>> anyone would be interested, I'm in need of an intermediate or expert,
>>>>> recognizably-efficient PHP developer with a little bit of charisma able
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> get to Salt Lake once or twice (I'll gladly pay for gas and lunch) to
>>>>>
>>>> sit
>>>
>>>> in
>>>>> with me (I'll be doing this with a few other developers from other
>>>>> languages
>>>>> too) and record some really short, light, PHP tutorials with screen and
>>>>> audio capturing software that I'll be purchasing specifically for this
>>>>> purpose (just screen, no web cam). Well, more like PHP demonstrations
>>>>>
>>>> than
>>>>
>>>>> tutorials really.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some examples of videos we might record:
>>>>> 1. Installing PHP
>>>>> 2. Connecting to a MySQL database and making some simple queries
>>>>> 3. Displaying the results with an HTML/CSS front end
>>>>> 4. Creating a simple listing, editing and updating form page to manage
>>>>>
>>>> a
>>>
>>>> table's data
>>>>> 5. Some simple AJAX techniques with PHP backends
>>>>> 6. Sending an email with PHP
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing too major, and the demos are totally flexible. This won't take
>>>>>
>>>> more
>>>>
>>>>> than a few hours (depending on how long it takes to do any of the stuff
>>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>> PHP )
>>>>>
>>>>> Long story short, I'm looking to get a single developer from each of
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> main server side products (PHP, Ruby, "Microsoft", Java, and
>>>>>
>>>> ColdFusion,
>>>
>>>> etc.) to record these demos to show how to do the exact same Web app
>>>>>
>>>> type
>>>
>>>> things in each language.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I'm looking for a more-experienced/efficient developer is so
>>>>> when
>>>>> we're putting these videos together people from the represented
>>>>>
>>>> discipline
>>>>
>>>>> won't feel like the language itself was misrepresented by a
>>>>>
>>>> particularly
>>>
>>>> slow or inexperienced programmer.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example I've got 4 years ColdFusion experience, so I write
>>>>>
>>>> ColdFusion
>>>
>>>> about 15x faster than maybe someone who's been at it for 6 months. I'm
>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>> really concerned with how much time you've been writing PHP so much as
>>>>>
>>>> just
>>>>
>>>>> getting someone visibly good. Someone that other PHP developers would
>>>>>
>>>> see
>>>
>>>> in
>>>>> these videos and go, "Yeah, that's about right" or "Nice! That guy's
>>>>>
>>>> fast!"
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone can help out on this or knows a PHP-er that'd be into it let
>>>>>
>>>> me
>>>
>>>> know. If you have particular frameworks ( MVC, ORM, what have you )
>>>>>
>>>> that
>>>
>>>> you
>>>>> use in your development we can definitely explore including them in the
>>>>> demos if it'll speed up your coding and make the PHP demos faster and
>>>>>
>>>> more
>>>>
>>>>> impressive. I really want PHP to look good here, no ulterior motives.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm really worried about is recording these videos and having
>>>>> ColdFusion look so much better than the other languages that it seems
>>>>> staged
>>>>> or exaggerated, so it's probably be a good idea for the person to use
>>>>> what's
>>>>> generally accepted as the best PHP IDE available (we'll have a computer
>>>>>
>>>> set
>>>>
>>>>> up ready for all of this stuff that you can install anything to, even a
>>>>> trial) and any PHP-specific best practices in the code they write.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone who's interested please write back. Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Utah Graphic Artists Forum General Discussion Mailing List
>>>>> ugaf at ugaf.org
>>>>> http://ugaf.org/mailman/listinfo/ugaf
>>>>> IRC: #ugaf on irc.freenode.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
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